We're taking our children to see it. We got three free tickets with a LOTR DVD set we bought.

It looks to me like a fun, entertaining, epic children's movie. Fantasy is fantasy.

I don't think it's wrong for other parents to fret over this movie if they want, but for my family a) my children have a strong sense of fantasy (TV, movies, video games) and reality and we're all agnostic, haha.

Again with this crap?

Yeah, let's shelter everyone from everything that might cause them to think differently.

Here's a thought: If a movie about polar bears wearing armor can totally topple your religious belief system then you might have more problems than you realize.

~Zoo

That is pretty much the crux of it... but watching a movie about polar bears wearing armor instead of reading your Bible probably is not the best course of action.

"Here's a thought: If a movie about polar bears wearing armor can totally topple your religious belief system then you might have more problems than you realize."

LOL.

Satanic, evil, atheistic. Yup, scary stuff.

"That is pretty much the crux of it... but watching a movie about polar bears wearing armor instead of reading your Bible probably is not the best course of action."

Why not, because the bible is better fantasy than a talking polar bear wearing a full plate?

You know, zoologist, there's two sides to the coin here. On the one hand, I'm glad the Catholic League is educating people about this movie. It contains themes some parents might not appreciate, and it allows parents to not go in blindsided.

While my kids won't be seeing this movie at this point, I actually see the benefit of it, and acknowledge its appropriate place. There's simply no reason the domain of fairy stories or fantasy should be exclusive to religion, as it doesn't represent the values of every parent out there. My children watch many different series of movies (Lemony Snicket, Narnia, and they are looking forward to the Spiderwick Chronicles), but if it's not a book series that draws their interest, it's not worth wasting valuable movie money to go see. They're still at the age where we have a limited censorship on what they read, although the oldest is gradually moving past that age.

The simple thing I would tell parents is, if you're not going to see this movie, don't see it. If you're going to see this movie, by all means, don't let me stop you .

I strongly believe parents have a right to educate their children to their values, Dan, and I'm fairly sure that's another area where we agree. I don't think there's a right or wrong position on this one for parents. I, for one, am glad there's discussion on it, and I may screen the movie at some point for appropriateness for my children if it draws any interest whatsoever, but I don't like being pressured to see it any more than I like being pressured not to.

I have found many gems through the lists of "condemned" movies/TV shows that I have genuinely enjoyed and liked, but I have found just as much garbage. The bulk of it (Harry Potter, and Lemony Snicket, for instance) usually finds its way to the "neutral" pile as material I neither support nor condemn.

How many times do you people read the Bible? You could probably wrap that up in a year and that's only reading sparingly.


Personally, I think fully armored polar bears are a little more interesting then working my way through a dusty(and quite boring) tome.



I see a movie much as I see any other piece of art or writing. Different interpretations for different people. I don't like to let another group of people tell me exactly what something means. I'd have to see it for myself.

A small blurb about some material in the film- magic, polar bear warriors, or whatever then that's fine if you don't want your kids to see it. I'm just a little disappointed on the whole boycott mentality. If you don't want your kids to see a movie, don't let them see it...but it hardly calls for a boycott. It's not like the movie is called, "Satanic Virgin Sacrifice in Gorey Bloody Detail with Occasional Rape and Instructions on Summoning Demons"...perhaps a movie like that I could see getting a little pissed over. Something called the "The Golden Compass" really doesn't spell out the condemnation of Christianity in my book.

I just think people overreact sometimes. Catholics can be pretty uptight...so I suppose it's understandable.

~Zoo

"Catholic League is educating people about this movie."

Education is one thing, boycotts are not educational, they are censorship. They are free to do as they wish, but spreading the word of God is education, Telling others what to think, based on a perception is not. Suggesting a parent deny their children/family exposure to certain entertainment is not education.

Had the Catholic League chosen to take the path of opening discussion about the movie, from a more philosophical perspective, used the metaphor and false wisdom, the fantasy in general, to explain and reinforce why the Churchs' own dogma makes more sense. They might have succeeded more in what their goal is.

Frankly, telling teenagers not to try drugs, not to have sex, not to read certain books, not to watch certain movies, is much more likely to have the opposite effect, on their target market, "the children".

Just because you don't let your kids see the movie in your presence, doesn't meant when they are with a group of friends, they won't tell you one thing and see another lol. Again, DUH.

"I strongly believe parents have a right to educate their children to their values, Dan, and I'm fairly sure that's another area where we agree."

Not only a right, but a responsibility, yes we absolutely agree.

"but I don't like being pressured to see it any more than I like being pressured not to."

I agree with that too. Don't get me wrong, I don't intend to see the move, I just noticed this controversy both in the workplace from a flier and from religious flier, I thought given the marketing I'm exposed to daily, there must be some great cause for a boycott, being that this whole "Beware the Golden Compass" message made it through my mental marketing interceptor/decipher. I'm not hawking the movie, only trying to suggest people make their own decisions, rather then let some league akin to a poker league or bowling league decide what's a good choice for your family to view on the big screen.

I certainly am pressuring no-one to see the movie. If anything rent it on video, much cheaper, I don't even watch movies in the theater. Money better spent elsewhere.

At one point, there was some great controversy about Harry Potter, like that's a big deal right? I wonder if when the Hardy Boys first printed if some nutjob Catholic led a boycott against it too for whatever reasons they needed to rally a cause against.

"I don't like to let another group of people tell me exactly what something means. I'd have to see it for myself."

You know and that's just it, my whole message right there. Please for the sake of your own sanity and expanded horizons, don't let a boycott stop you from letting the story take a few hours of fantasy. The whole goal of the movie theater is to take people away from their real world troubles and immerse in a good story, told in a short time.

"I just think people overreact sometimes. Catholics can be pretty uptight...so I suppose it's understandable."

If you think Catholics are uptight, have you heard what Muslims do to teachers who name teddy bears Muhammed?

I formally name this thread, Muhammed, there come get me Islam. I'm ready for ya. I'm feeling so infidelish today.

Dan Greene writes:



As I said before, whose truth? Is a fantasy movie that blasphemes God truth? Is atheism truth?



Yes, educating people about the movie is exactly what the the League is doing. The League has educated us to the fact that the movie blashemes God, denegrates Christianity and promotes atheism TO CHILDREN.

Based upon this, the Catholic League is alerting parents by suggesting that we boycott the film.

OK, we get your point...you'd do things differently..

The Catholic League has a mission and a goal...as far as I'm concerned, on this issue, it's done an "A one" job in bringing awareness to the blasphmous, anti-Christian nature of the film.

I agree with and support the call for the boycott...all Christians should stay away from this film. Christians are "of the world", but not to be "in the world" ..we are to avoid those things in the world which are physically threatening, morally threatening and spiritually threatening.

Yes, educating people about the movie is exactly what the the League is doing. The League has educated us to the fact that the movie blashemes God, denegrates Christianity and promotes atheism TO CHILDREN.

Based upon this, the Catholic League is alerting parents by suggesting that we boycott the film.

I disagree, Lula. The Catholic League is promoting a boycott based upon the reputation of a film that its members and leaders have not seen. That is promoting censorship not education. If the Catholic League boycotted the film after having viewed it, then its representatives would be speaking from a position of knowledge and not ignorance.

Also, you seem to be oddly hung up on the concept of truth. No one is suggesting that the movie or the book represents some kind of absolute truth, only that there is a device, the film's namesake, that references truth in some manner (again, within the context of the story).

While reasonable people can probably agree that parents should make their own decisions about films that their children should or should not see, I have a tendency to agree with zoologist on one point (

If a movie about polar bears wearing armor can totally topple your religious belief system then you might have more problems than you realize.

). The film is rated PG-13, after all. By 13 years old, children should have some kind of concept of metaphysics and religion. A thinking child of this age is unlikely to be swayed from his/her existing religious framework by this movie any more than The Lion, The Witch, and The Wardrobe created hordes of new young Christian converts.

In fairness, Dan, I should point out that, again in conversations with my mom, she has indicated that in the second and third volumes, the author really makes the attack on organized, monotheistic religion pretty blatant. I haven't yet read any of the books myself, so I can only speak from this source of secondhand information, but it would appear that, if the books are all translated faithfully into celluloid, Catholics and others might have much to be offended about.

So in essence, if it isn't Catholic, it's satanic, or atheistic? Is that the black and white, no middle ground argument you are making?

Prove for instance the existence of God, and I'll call your God true. Since Atheists don't believe in the existence of God, the truth for them, is that.

You are making quite a stretch if you are implying that the Golden Compass, by which the plot device, a golden compass, is a meter of truth. Such a device does not exist, Or does it? Even a lie detector will only measure a person's natural reactions to giving an answer they believe is either false or true.

If I am asked if the world is flat, and I believe it is, then the best lie detector created by science, cannot know which is true, only what I believe is true.

The plot device in the movie, though creative, is not nearly as pass/fail readable, as the lie detector. Like I said there are some series of symbols, and more then one indicator, essentially it gives you a readout like a slot machines. I find it hard to conceivably believe, anybody departing from their faith by substituting the reality in the movie, or by questioning their faith to the extent they no longer believe because of the movie's teaching.

Faith, it about believing in the absence of absolute fact. Therefore, your faith, is no more or less relevant than atheism, regardless of what you personally believe.

"Yes, educating people about the movie is exactly what the the League is doing."

No that is not exactly what they are doing. Stop misrepresenting their actions, my my you are so determined to guard your faith against anything that might cause you to question it.

"On October 7, 2007 the Catholic League called for a boycott of the film."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Golden_Compass_(film)

Boycott does not = education in the English language. Or we would all be receiving our "High Boycott Diplomats" when we graduate public school.

"Kissling also stated "[Donohue] has made it his business to protest every bit of pop culture and politics that doesn't mesh perfectly with his strict views on Catholic doctrine" and added that many have noted that he is a "total media hound"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_League_%28US%29

You need to get "boycotted" on this issue, to substitute the word educate as freely as you seem fit to claim the C league as doing.

Rather than just tune out the video/audio/literature that doesn't apply to them, this group is actively protesting and calling for boycotts, against anything Anti-Catholic. That's fine, that's their right, however the rest of us, whether we are in steady demand or just interested in occasional raunchy entertainment, certainly don't need some religious league trying to decide for the public what is fit for the public to watch.

Thats what a boycott does, it takes away from the enrichment of life, literature, media, creativity. If you want to see an example of boycotting and censorship done by the masters, check out Islam, and the Sharia, or nations where free press doesn't exist.

Whenever you willingly comply with a group to censor a work of creativity, no matter how crude or distasteful or seemingly valueless to you, you deconstruct the of free speech and expression.

Seriously, are you still defending the C leagues' decision to cite this work of fantasy as an example of a danger to the Catholic church, children, or Catholic families?

No, censorship is if the government banned its distribution. The Catholic League is providing nothing of the sort. They are simply educating parents as to their opinion.




And this is where the irony of these sorts of controversies comes about. While I personally never purchase materials I review (that's what the local library is good for), if this movie gains any traction at all in pop culture, I will feel compelled to review it. Had there been no controversy attached, I wouldn't review it even IF it were the most popular movie on the planet. Thus, the Catholic League may advance wider reading/viewing of the series than it would have without the call to boycott.

I disagree. A boycott is not censorship. They're not lobbying the government to shut down the film, heck they're not even lobbying theatre owners not to show the film (which is again not censorship!)

Censorship happens when the government bans the public exhibition of a form of expression. Not only is that not happening, the Catholic League is not even encouraging it.

Gideon, I disagree with your definition of censorship.

Merriam-Webster defines it as "the institution, system, or practice of censoring" and censor the transitive verb as " to examine in order to suppress or delete anything considered objectionable." Nowhere in these definitions is there an implicit or explicit mention of a governmental authority.

Censorship by religious authorities is in fact the question here. Recall the Catholic Church's Index Librorum Prohibitorum. While the Church lacks the kind of secular power that it had to enforce the list in the 16th century, it is still very much a question of a religious authority decreeing sight unseen that a work is inappropriate for members of its faith.