They're not trying to suppress or delete anything, just encouraging people not to attend. And in order to censor, one must have the authority to censor. The Catholic Church lacks that power.

Or do you feel we HAVE to see every movie that comes out, or be guilty of censorship?

Exactly....good point.

Warreni posts:

Take porno films...by your logic, Catholics must see them before condemning them?

Warreni posts:

You bet...and the Catholic Church has been guiding us in faith and morals through this valley of tears we call "the world" for 2,000 years.

Gordon,

You allude to some power required to censor work. I would argue that the Catholic Church has (or claims) power over its adherents across the world and this constitutes (if correct) a significant amount of power.

Or do you feel we HAVE to see every movie that comes out, or be guilty of censorship?

No. I never said anything of the kind. I merely pointed out that the act of condemning a work and promoting a boycott of said work without even having firsthand knowledge of whether that work says anything that might be deemed offensive or even simply contradictory to the Church's doctrinal teachings certainly looks like an attempt at censorship.

Lulu,

Take porno films...by your logic, Catholics must see them before condemning them?

Without getting into a lengthy and tedious discourse on the definition of "obscene," I would suggest that any serious attempt to equate a work that may contain controversial religious ideas with pornography is absurd on its face. If the film contained references to your God being a degenerate who cavorted with children and ate babies, yes, I could see you making a case that it is, in some sense, a form of intellectual pornography; however, the judgment has been made to condemn the movie without a prior screening by the authorities of the organization denouncing it. To me, that seems wrong. If you disagree, well, that's your right too.

Dan Greene posts:


Dan you are the one who brought up truth...you are the one describing the golden compass as a meter of truth...not me.

I was responding to what you wrote in the main article:



In reply #5 you say:


To which I asked whose truth? And you reply---the atheist's truth.



Are you holding up atheism over belief in God? You tell me to prove the existence of God, yet when do you give equal challenge to the Pullmans of this world and require them to prove there is no God as this movie suggests (to little kids no less)?

As for proving the existence of God, I'll start by saying Truth is in possession. And there is no grey area in truth. Truth is black and white...you either possess truth or you don't.

God is Truth...and atheists such as Pullman deny God so how can they have truth?

Look around. The stamp of God's handiwork is so clearly impressed upon creation and above all, upon man, that all inherently believe there is some Being out there who is greater than them.

Men do not have to persuade themselves that there is a God. They have to try to persuade themselves there is no God. ANd no one, yet, who has attained such a temporary persuasion, has been able to find a valid reason for it. Men do not grow into the idea of a God, they endeavor to grow out of it.

OK, an attempt, maybe. I'll concede that possibility.

However, I think it is important to notice this did not come from the Vatican, but rather the Catholic League. The former has real official authority; the latter is a private, civil rights organization. So it is an attempt to inform, not to censor.

Lula,

Oops. My brain saw "Lulupilgrim," not "Lulapilgrim." Apologies for the nomenclatural gaffe.

I think the reference was to some 'authority' not so much 'power' to censor work.

While the Catholic Church was given authority to teach from Christ Himself, she has no "power" per se over her adherants. Catholics are called to firmly adhere to the Church's ex cathedra decrees in matters of faith and morals. It's important to note that in the case of the Catholic League by condemning the Golden Compass and calling for a boycott isn't an official act of the Church. Catholics are free to take the League's warnings into consideration, and make their own choice.

I agree with this. I've been warned about this movie actually months ago. I'm not Catholic but I agree with their warning. Otherwise unsuspecting parents may not have the slightest idea the spirit behind such a movie.

The thought that this movie is being compared to J.R.R. Tolkien and C.S.Lewis is ridiculous and something I believe neither Tolkien nor Lewis would be amused by.

Phillip Pullman (the author) is only trying to spread his anti-God message to his audience and to think as Christian parents we should just sit there and take this is just as ridiculous and not what God would call us to do. He calls for us to stand up and take a stand against such things.

Imagine, an Author writing a novel about your mother or other family member bad mouthing her to the extreme....should you go and see it to be "enlightened?"

This is what Pullman had to say to an interviewer about well-known and much loved popular Author C.S. Lewis....

"I hate the Narnia books, and I hate them with a deep and bitter passion, with their view of childhood as a golden age from which sexuality and adulthood are a falling-away."

I imagine he does hate the Narnia books filled with godly examples and analogies (check the spirit).

On his personal website he states:

"The meaning of a story emerges in the meeting between the words on the page and thoughts in the reader's mind. So when people ask me what I meant by this story, or what was the message I was trying to convey in that one, I have to explain that I'm not going to explain. Anyway, I'm not in the message business; I'm in the 'Once upon a time' business."

So is he just trying to tell a story innocently with no anti-God sentiments behind it? Is he really only trying to tell an interesting story. Should we believe him?

Well as Christians we know the lies behind Satan as we test the Spirits and look deeper into what and who is really behind such things. We are told to be "wise as serpents and harmless as doves."

So the answer is no. Don't trust him. He contradicts himself when he said this:

"All stories teach," he's said, "whether the storyteller intends them to or not. They teach the world we create. They teach the morality we live by. They teach it much more effectively than moral precepts and instructions. ... We don't need lists of rights and wrongs, tables of do's and don'ts: We need books, time and silence. 'Thou shalt not' is soon forgotten."

"His Dark Materials" Trilogy is just at the basic level a refutation against Christianity incorporating such things as divination, homosexuaality, witchcraft, evolution, premarital sex with accompanying smoking, drinking, some profanity and violence.

It's well known that when you want to change a generation you go for the children. That's exactly who Pullman is going after to broadcast his message, "My Books are about killing God."

So exactly why would a Christian want to take part in paying for this?

Maybe that's not such a bad idea. Catholics can be a little sexually repressed at times...with that whole celibacy thing.

~Zoo

lula posts:



On the contrary, even without seeing the movie, the Catholic League has done its homework and is speaking from knowledge...

Why?

Becasue they know that the movie, (even though it's anti-Catholicism and anti-God is supposedly watered down a bit) is based upon Pullman's books.

And the Catholic League has learned about what the author has to say of himself which Dan Greene has cited in the main article---



In the Gospels Christ asks can a good tree bear rotten fruit? The movie is the fruit of the books and Pullman's imagination which are by his own admission---anti-Christian and atheistic to the core.

As a former librarian, I previewed Pullman's books. His fantasy universe is nihilistic, rooted in chaos, atheistic and angry at God and at children.

There is no way the movie, even though it's been said to have been watered down a bit, has been sanitized of its anti-Christianity.
And what is most gauling to me is that this movie is directed to unwary impressionable young children.

There is no doubt in my mind, even without seeing the movie, the Catholic League has warned the Christian community well...boycott the movie....for it cannot be anything but spiritual poison to our children -- for the movie is the fruit of the book.

KFC, what do you mean by "test the Spirits"?

KFC POSTS:

Yes, you bring up an excellent point KFC.

Make no mistake, there is a very evil spirit behind the movie.

KFC POSTS:

It's not only Catholic, I have recently received a warning notice from the American Family Association as well...all saying the same thing which boils down to parents beware...

Is there an evil spirit behind Shrek? Flushed Away? How to Eat Fried Worms? Beauty and the Beast?

No one should feel compelled to watch something they don't want to watch, but I certainly don't understand the impulse to vilify a children's movie.

We watched LOTR. We watched The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe. We'll watch The Golden Compass.

It's fantasy. Not everything has to be broken down into a meaningful allegory. Some things are valuable just because they are entertaining and fun.

Is there an evil spirit behind Shrek? Flushed Away? How to Eat Fried Worms? Beauty and the Beast?

Well, actually, I think there is an evil spirit behind Beauty and the Beast: Disney.