"How can you judge this movie without a screening?"

Mein Kampf was a book too, nobody gave it much thought. Only this time the situation is reversed, nobody has seen the movie, yet everybody thinks they know exactly what is in it.

"Y'all MUST stop busting Dan's chops here. I haven't heard him once say that parents who don't want to see it should be forced to see it."

Exactly right, don't take your kids to see if it you dont want to. Don't let your kids watch MTV if you don't want to, don't let them watch CNN if you don't want to, but don't tell my kids or me, that we can't watch it, or we won't be able to find it on TV because you find it what hasn't been seen, but only conceptualized in your mind, as potentially offensive.

Hey Gid, is it still Joe User or Gid User, 3 featured articles on the front page, lol what are you collecting a salary here?

"What exactly has the Catholic League as you say "misrepresented", Dan?"

If you take the literal interpretation, "My books are about killing God", "trying to undermine the basis of Christian belief." The choice of words, if poor as quoting people off the cuff tends to do. Killing the idea of God, in the literary sense, is defeating it by providing atheistic examples of why God does not exist. He doesn't kill God in the books, out of hate, but to offer society another perspective. It isn't just God or only God, but organized religion in general. Catholics have chosen to take it personally, with the C League's endorsement of boycotting any expression that is perceived anti-catholic, whether or not it is.

I would argue that atheists are much more scientific thinkers than people who have a belief in God. Not all atheists, and not all believes in God, but in general. When you try to undermine a theory in science, you use observations and the scientific method to defeat an incorrect notion.

Even the laws of nature, are sometimes rewritten or re-understood. In a sense he means, his books are about killing God, because you essential kill God when you take away God's power over man. Similar to the mankind killed Zeus, when people stopped believing that Greek mythology was anything but mythology.

That is his perspective. I will remind you it a perfectly legit, certainly as legit as believing in organized religion, because essentially there is no way to prove or disprove totally and without a doubt that God exists, or that one religion is the God's path over the other. Consider for a moment, if there was absolute and total proof, that we would not be arguing the point about the existence of God.

In order for you to understand the viewpoint, the words, you have to get past the blatant hatred for other peoples differing perspectives, and even though you don't feel it's necessary, give your debater opponent equal footing. That is exactly what the C league doesn't see fit to do. People in this country have a freedom of expression right, an inalienable right, given to them by their creator, whoever or whatever that may be. Nobody can argue that we do not exist, but nobody can argue that we know exactly who created us, for what purpose, or that we even have a creator. It is not known as fact. Maybe, faith, and maybe belief, founded or unfounded, but fact, like the atomic weight of carbon = 12, it is not.

Another point, the comment he made, or statement, is in regards to the books, the literature, but they make no claim or mention of the movie, a movie we STILL HAVE YET TO SEE. LOL

"How dare you use quotes I used previously against me now that they don't support my point!"

Well I think I've cleared it up nice and tidy thank you very much.

"Movies often lead to reading the book behind it, because of that very fact. So that will lead to young'uns seeing the movie, and then reading the book, and basically being lied to about God by someone who is specifically trying to undermine Christian beliefs."

So, he has no right to speak on the subject? He has no right to make observations on religion in the public domain? He has no right to make the case for moving beyond religion?

I'm not trying to defend the point he makes, only that he has a right to make it, and also that I have a right to hear it. I guess when you live in a world where religion is more important that your rights you can kinda see the tragedies that occur in societies where freedom of speech doesn't carry much weight.

I don't believe he is doing anything to infringe upon the rights of Catholics to practice their religion, only to make his point. It is the C League that is choosing to take this fight to him and at what cost. If Will Donahue was a little more media savvy that he is, considering the years he's been in this business you'd expect him to be a brighter man than he is, he would have taken a lighter handed approach and not stirred the pot until its ready to boil over. I would guess that you will see, a pretty big turn out over the controversy, and teenagers seeing the movie, in kniving ways kids do things at the PG-13 age lol.

Who is accepting evil?

I WISH!

What the hell have you been smoking? Smoke is bad, but spray me in the face it does not. Sounds like something from a Bond movie.



Children read books these days?

If that is the case, then they should be smart enough to think for themselves. Kids who read for their own enjoyment are a rarity and probably won't be brainwashed by reading a book. I've read hundreds of things and yet I've remained pretty much the same person with the same viewpoints. Words only have as much power as you give them. Read and agree, read and disagree, or just read and enjoy.

~Zoo

Wow.

I just finished reading all these comments, and I just have to say thank you to KFC and Lula.

I hadn't really thought twice about this movie, but your comments on here have definitely given me some food for thought.






I'm-a go see this shit on opening weekend, babee. I'm-a take my fourteen-year-old sister along.

I'm-a tell you when she loses her faith.

Metal Gear Solid 3... one of the weapons you can equip while disguised as a scientist.

30 years from now, you will wonder why she isn't following Christ... and no-one will remember that it all started with a movie... foolish mortal!

lula posts:


I've just received information from the Diocese of La Cross, Wisconson that helps explain more about it being as simple as allowing kids to watch a fantasy movie...

The Diocese of La Cross answered the question: "Why can't kids go to it as a fun, fantasy movie? What am I to tell my child?"

The handout says: "It is no simple fantasy. It is about evil being presented in an enticing and glamorous way. As the first teachers and protectors, parents would not allow their children to be desensitized to evil so that it becomes commonplace and they no longer recognize it as dangerous and seek to avoid it. It is the same as saying that parents would not let their children drink poison. Tell your children that this movie is definitely poison for the soul. In the Our Father, Jesus taught us clearly to pray, deliver us from evil. Jesus does not want us to toy with evil even when it looks fascinating."

Holy crap, that's hilarious! How does it present evil in a glamorous way? I thought the good guys always won in these kids movies...in fact, most stories feature the good guys winning.

I guess Catholics don't watch cable...if a children's movie gets their hackles up then I can only imagine what HBO does to your soul.

~Zoo

That's the reason why I plan to see it too with my kids! I will be there, I'm their guide when they have questions or are confused! I don't need anyone else to tell them something that I myself don't believe or cannot answer to.

I teach them the difference between right and wrong and more than anything else, to trust their instincts.

I'm sorry Lula, if there is evil out there I want my children to recognise it. I want them to know what it feels like and what it will try to do and they must to do stop it. Hiding from it doesn't help, knowing all about it helps! That said doesn't mean they see fire and put their hands in it, but rather they will be equipped to know that if they have to touch it in order to save themselves because that is the only way out, then put on protective gear or find a way around it!

I've read all three of the books in this series. The first takes place entirely in an alternate universe in which the Church is extremely powerful. It is also made up of several different departments that have differing motivations. One department in particular is prominent in this book. They commit a bunch of terrible acts.

I read this when I was in 5th grade. The obvious anti-Christian views did nothing to affect my faith. The next two contained more anti-Christian sentiment that could only have been labeled as blatant. I pretty much ignored this and just read what was to me a very good story. I think the author's obvious distaste for Christianity actually hurt the narrative towards the end, but I think the first two books are just fantastic stories.

These books (and probably the movie) contain no great arguments against Christianity. No child old enough to read this book is going to be influenced in a way that could not easily be combated by a 15 min talk from the parents.

Besides, from everything I've read, any mentions of the Church being behind the atrocious events in the story have been removed from the movie, so there's really nothing to be scared of. I'm personally really looking forward to it.

Wow, someone who's actually read them.

A first for this discussion!

The good guys may win, yes, but the Catholic church is presented as the bad guys. And maybe they are in this fantasy realm. But why does the Catholic church even exist in this fantasy realm?

"What if I DID want to find a decent children's movie with an agnostic or atheist slant?"

There is no such thing. There is no middle ground. There is only, right and wrong to Catholics.

"It is no simple fantasy. It is about evil being presented in an enticing and glamorous way. As the first teachers and protectors, parents would not allow their children to be desensitized to evil so that it becomes commonplace and they no longer recognize it as dangerous and seek to avoid it. It is the same as saying that parents would not let their children drink poison. Tell your children that this movie is definitely poison for the soul. In the Our Father, Jesus taught us clearly to pray, deliver us from evil. Jesus does not want us to toy with evil even when it looks fascinating."

So now Jesus is saying we shouldn't attend this movie? A movie nobody has seen yet, is automatically poison because an atheist created it. I think the fantasy here is that the C league and any church that participates in a boycott of a fantasy movie, on the baseless accusations of Will Donahue is legitimate when they say they are acting in the best interests of family.

Yeah, desensitized by evil, like when the pope during the Nazi era, assisted Adolf Hitler to power right? Cause they were looking out for the family and children then.

---

"I've read all three of the books in this series. The first takes place entirely in an alternate universe in which the Church is extremely powerful. It is also made up of several different departments that have differing motivations. One department in particular is prominent in this book. They commit a bunch of terrible acts.

I read this when I was in 5th grade. The obvious anti-Christian views did nothing to affect my faith. The next two contained more anti-Christian sentiment that could only have been labeled as blatant. I pretty much ignored this and just read what was to me a very good story. I think the author's obvious distaste for Christianity actually hurt the narrative towards the end, but I think the first two books are just fantastic stories.

These books (and probably the movie) contain no great arguments against Christianity. No child old enough to read this book is going to be influenced in a way that could not easily be combated by a 15 min talk from the parents.

Besides, from everything I've read, any mentions of the Church being behind the atrocious events in the story have been removed from the movie, so there's really nothing to be scared of. I'm personally really looking forward to it."

---

Thank you for making a potent contribution, even if opinionated, it is at least relevant and important, to this discussion.

"The good guys may win, yes, but the Catholic church is presented as the bad guys. And maybe they are in this fantasy realm. But why does the Catholic church even exist in this fantasy realm?"

The point is you as an interpreter of the story, insert them. There is no mention of Catholics, Christians, Jews, Islam, Buddhists, only of the Magistrium or some such. Which represent organized religion in general, not necessarily Christianity or Catholicism, it is only Will Donahue who is leading the charge at the C league to boycott the movie. If you read the wiki on the C league and the controversy, you will see other religions are taking a "wait and see" approach. You know, one of a logical approach, not of a fanatical or "crusade" type enterprise.

Just because you disagree with a theme of the movie, doesn't mean you need to boycott it, you could indeed use it as a tool to foster debate, and bible study, but no, the C league is interested only in popularizing itself and bringing itself more power.

Maybe the Catholic league thinks it's talking about Catholics because they fit the description?